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1) Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges (Message 88011)
Posted 1833 days ago by Christopher Siegert
@ [DPC]Charley

I fail to see how I'm now "harming" PrimeGrid by not contributing. You don't seem to understand what the word "harm" means. Am I also "harming" charities by not donating to them? Am I "harming" you by not paying your bills? What else do you feel entitled to? (Elizabeth is a Queen of entitlement & autocracy, so I can see a connection in attitude now...)

Again, I owe you nothing, and it's because of your condescending, autocratic comments that have driven me away. You could have been nice, but you chose to be rude, and now you're trying to make me look like a bad guy in order to save face.

I guess you look out at the world and see millions of people "harming" PrimeGrid, because they have yet to hook their computers up to your sacred website. Ha!

Bottom line: I was not threatening or bullying anyone. Your choice in the name of the challenge offended me. Perhaps challenges don't even need names. Did you consider that? Why not simply the "Cullen Challenge"?

Every topic is potentially upsetting.


Yeah sure, in theory, but in practice it is typically politics and religion that causes problems. Hence, the name of this thread...

Have any other names actually given rise to people writing in forums about how a challenge name is inappropriate?

It has nothing to do with math, but it has everything to do with a large cultural happening in some part of the world.


Well guess what? I never came here for "cultural" information. I came here to crunch numbers and discuss/learn math.

And you are allowed to up to certain point. You were past it, both in time and manner of discussion.


How autocratic of you...

Thanks for attempting to place limits on what I'm "allowed" to do. I'm now not contributing to PrimeGrid because of this sort of condescension.

@ SteveRC

if you're looking to fight that battle, I think you're a hundred or so years too late!


No, that's not quite the battle I'm trying to fight. In the US, there's a lot of talk about "the 1%" and wealth inequality. "Her majesty" Elizabeth is a prime example of this kind of person (with even more influence than a mere billionaire).

Her extreme sense of entitlement sickens a lot of people. It's also about classism. The idea of a "commoner" disgusts me. Again, it's really just about egalitarianism more than a modern concern for democracy.

your actions in these forums appear to be.. aah.. (dare i say?).. somewhat Autocratic!


How so? How am I being tyrannical, despotic, or domineering? I'm simply not contributing any more, just like most other people in the world. [DPC]Charley seems to be the sneering autocrat here.

where would we be today if Mr Mandela had taken a leaf out of your book, and stormed off in disgust when all his demands were not met, instead of extending his hands in reconciliation and forgiveness?


I don't know. Where would we be if General George Washington hadn't revolted against King George III? At a certain point, you fight back out of dignity and self-respect. You assert your own master status instead of submitting with what Nietzsche called "slave morality".

So to where, exactly, does your Moral-Compass point, in these "Interesting Times" we find ourselves in?


I would have been fine with a "refugee" challenge. However, my moral compass certainly points away from Queen Elizabeth.

Say, I wonder if she's got some rooms in her castles for some of those refugee children?
2) Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges (Message 87905)
Posted 1836 days ago by Christopher Siegert
While I appreciate the appreciation of my contributions and the request that I stay (and just skip the challenge), I do not wish to willingly associate with any organization that promotes a monarch. Maybe if Elizabeth had found a prime number in her privileged life, I could understand, but she's an irrelevant jerk in my view.

At first, I was just going to skip the challenge, but then I was condescendingly talked down to on top of it by at least one PrimeGrid person and accused of being threatening and bullying (all because I said I would leave if the offensive royalty-worship was not removed). Again, I don't owe certain people anything, and I don't spend my life reading through old PrimeGrid forums about challenge names. I didn't see the offensive name until recently when it was put on the front page. I'm not going to apologize or be talked down to for this. When I am dismissed, I get dismissive.

I will be leaving, though it may take me some time to disconnect all of the computers.

I still fundamentally don't understand the point of naming a challenge over anything potentially upsetting. What's the point? Where is QEII's relevance to math?!

I'm not trying to control PrimeGrid's naming of challenges. I just don't want to get pissed off when coming here, and I don't like being talked down to when I'm a VOLUNTEER contributor voicing his opinion about a challenge that multiple other people also saw an issue with.

I'll go back to my independent search for primes as well as some GIMPS stuff.
3) Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges (Message 87839)
Posted 1838 days ago by Christopher Siegert
In your specific case, your suggestion that this is a cop out is particularly disingenuous given that you have posted a number of times at PG over the last year including multiple posts in news threads (not including any of your posts of the last few days).


Suffice it to say, over the years, I never noticed an offensive name for a challenge theme, and I made an assumption about future names of challenges. I never actually looked at the names of future challenges, so I didn't know that this one would be pro-monarchy until it was placed on the front page.

Again, you can obviously do what you want with your own website. Likewise, I can obviously do what I want with my own computers. All I ever said is that I will leave if it's not changed. I don't care how you feel about my stance. I'm just supplying you with this information.

Equating the record-long reign of the current British monarch (who is and has been essentially a figure head with no real political power) with the worst terrorist attack in US history is at best ridiculous hyperbole.


In no way was I equating these two. I have no idea how you got that in your head. I didn't suggest a celebration of the terrorist attacks. I suggested a commemoration of the nearly 3000 victims just as a possible alternative. Again, there are an infinite number of possible alternatives to royalty worship.

To be more blunt, PrimeGrid might as well have a "Democracy Sucks and Egalitarianism Is For The Birds" challenge. That is why I will be leaving if nothing is changed. I don't care that there was some forum where you think people like me should have brought this up a year ago. I owe you nothing, so if you're going to run a disrespectful challenge with an anti-democracy theme, I'm done.

"the current British monarch (who is and has been essentially a figure head with no real political power)"

Ha! Elizabeth is socially influential and worth something like $500,000,000. She must have worked real hard for that wealth and influence... How did that wealth come to be? Where did it come from? Is there a dark history to the existence of that wealth? Hmmm...?

I imagine that many citizens of the UK would find this remark to be extremely offensive.


They probably would, if it were true, but there was no such equation made by me. What I find offensive is that the long life of a monarch is somehow more important than the deaths of nearly 3000 victims of terrorism. If you won't stick to math/science, at least have some common political/moral sense.
4) Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges (Message 87779)
Posted 1839 days ago by Christopher Siegert
For a Frenchman, a monarch challenge is unacceptable.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.


Yves Gallot has got it right.

Why on earth any of you think it's remotely acceptable to celebrate or mention a monarch (especially the imperial British) as a theme for a prime-searching challenge is beyond me.

I'm not trying to threaten or bully anybody. I'm simply responding to something offensive by leaving if it's not changed. This aggravates me, because I like searching for primes, and it's a nice hobby. I didn't think my experience here would get needlessly ruined in such a fashion.

change it to my way or I'm leaving


I actually never tried to dictate what the name of the challenge should be. Rather, I'm simply stating that if an offensive name/concept is going to be used, that I will be leaving. I'm just giving people this information; they can do with it what they want. If you want to ignore it, that's obviously up to you. It's your website, not mine. Likewise, my computers and their CPU cycles are mine, not yours.

Avoiding political/religious figures/themes is all I'm requesting. That leaves quite a wide variety of infinite possibilities... any of which would be OK with me.

I'm not familiar with the concept of an “American libertarian” and why one would have such a problem with monarchs in other countries.


I'm an American citizen. Americans revolted against the British monarch in 1776 (with the help of the French) and established a democracy. Politically, I'm a libertarian, so I cherish human liberty and self-rule. Monarchy is kind of a polar opposite view...

To me, monarchs anywhere represent a form of blatant injustice.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - Martin Luther King Jr.

As for telling me that I should have said something a year ago in some other thread, that's a cop out. I didn't know that there was such a thread or that such a thing would be expected of me (or others concerned about offensive names for challenges). Frankly, I didn't think the operators of PrimeGrid would be so unwise to begin with. Queen Elizabeth II?! Seriously?! SHE is more important than those of us who actually crunch numbers here?!

I just don't get it. It certainly is "random", but it's unfortunately randomly offensive.

If it's not changed, I'm gone. That is simply a fact, not a "threat". I'm not out to harm PrimeGrid or anybody here. Rather, I don't want to get harmed/offended when coming here. I am confused how my own defensive action is getting regarded as a threat or bullying tactic.

interesting factoids/events to match a good timeframe for the challenges


On September 11th, 2001, nearly 3000 people died in a terrorist attack on the world trade centers in New York City. Citizens of over 90 countries lost their lives in that attack. Commemorating the victims of terrorism (in any country) makes more sense to me than recognizing a monarch for living a long life. Just an idea...
5) Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges (Message 87731)
Posted 1840 days ago by Christopher Siegert
"Queen" Elizabeth II apparently missed the memo. I will restate it here:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.


Exactly what has Elizabeth accomplished in terms of math or computer science? Has she discovered even one prime number in her absurdly privileged life? What is her relevance to PrimeGrid? What possible motivation is there to celebrate her *undeserved* reign? She has lived a long life, because she has enjoyed privileged access to health care, quality food, water, shelter, clothing, security, etc. unlike so many other people in this world that suffered under brutal British imperial rule.

I just don't get it. I'd rather see a challenge not have a theme at all than to engage in royalty worship.
6) Message boards : Number crunching : Reign Record Challenge (Message 87724)
Posted 1840 days ago by Christopher Siegert
And another thing...

That's your opportunity to be heard.


I will voice my opinion when and where I want to. If you wish to operate in such an authoritarian manner, that will just further motivate me to leave. I don't appreciate such attitudes when it comes to freedom of expression. You have to respect the people who contribute their CPU cycles to this project. I can certainly go back to GIMPS or find another project to contribute to.
7) Message boards : Number crunching : Reign Record Challenge (Message 87723)
Posted 1840 days ago by Christopher Siegert
keep the politics out.


I agree. PrimeGrid should keep politics out, so rename the challenge to something not so blatantly disrespectful to those of us who take serious issue with monarchs/royalty/undemocratic figures.

This is supposed to be a math project, not a practice in royalty-worship. I absolutely HATE royalty in every single country where it exists. All kings and queens owe their subjects deep apologies and should step down from their undeserved positions of power & influence.

I will certainly not be participating in such a challenge, and if the name is not changed, I will stop participating in PrimeGrid altogether.

As for previous challenges with non-scientific names, I don't know what exactly "Sovereign" is supposed to refer to, but Saint Nicholas is not a good idea either. I don't see problems with Shakespeare or World Animal Day.

"Politics and religion"...

To host a math challenge in order to celebrate Queen Elizebath II's reign of blatant entitlement is extraordinarily offensive to me and others. I'm an American libertarian. I utterly HATE royalty.

Obviously, you can do what you want with your own property/website, but you should certainly be aware of how offensive royalty-worship can be to Americans or people of various political orientations...

My intention is not to upset anyone here but to point out that I am upset with the idea of such a "celebration". You would run into the same problem with an "Adam Smith" or "Karl Marx" celebration. Please stick to math and science.
8) Message boards : News : 321 Mega Prime! (2015 Edition, part 2) (Message 86670)
Posted 1896 days ago by Christopher Siegert
3*2^11895718 - 1 = 3*(2^11895717-1) * 2 + 1


I'm confused.

Doesn't 3*(2^11895717-1) * 2 + 1 = 3*2^11895718 - 5

It seems you're off by 4.

I think you mean: (3*2^11895717 - 1) * 2 + 1

However, this is not a Proth number as k > 2^n
9) Message boards : Generalized Fermat Prime Search : Genefer "B" limits (Message 84506)
Posted 1999 days ago by Christopher Siegert
What is the largest b value that PrimeGrid plans to test at the N=20 level?
10) Message boards : News : PPS MEGA Prime of the Month! (Message 83655)
Posted 2029 days ago by Christopher Siegert
In ten years of searching, PG has found 68 of these, but that is an incredible amount of resources over a decade that found only 68.


Make that 69 with plenty more on the way.

It's called "exponential growth". It'll start off seeming quite slow, and then suddenly 1,000,000 digits won't even seem significant.

I'm sure there was a time when 350,000 digit primes seemed quite large, but now all of the top 5000 primes are at least that size. In fact, the first prime that I ever submitted to the top 5000 was initially ranked #792 with only 78,125 digits. That was in 2004.

So far, 59 days into 2015, five megaprimes have been found at PrimeGrid. At that rate, we can expect a total of 31 megaprimes for 2015.

I'd bet $100 that at least 50 megaprimes will be discovered in 2016 (not necessarily just at PrimeGrid though).

We just happen to be at a juncture of reasonably fast computers and a particularly rich zone for finding these primes for certain projects.


Given P = k*2^n +/- 1, there are millions of testable numbers for each sufficiently large integer n. So there's simply no shortage of numerical territory to cover.


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