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Suggestions for improving "Your Badges" page
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Ideas that came to my mind...
1) The project name on each row could be a link leading to the Tasks page already filtered for all my tasks for that project. For example, "321 LLR" on my http://www.primegrid.com/show_badges.php?userid=388469 would be linked to http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?userid=388469&offset=0&show_names=0&state=0&appid=7
2) Of course, this wouldn't work for projects like "GFN" or others that are a collection of more granular subprojects on the Tasks page. In that case, any chance to actually add a GFN etc. "summary project" to the Tasks page, and link to that?
3) If there is a pending credit for a row on the Badges page, it would be nice if it could be a link to the http://www.primegrid.com/pending.php page, but filtered to the resultIDs contributing to that pending credit.
4) And, if any of my machines have In Progress tasks towards a row in the Badges page, a new "N tasks are in progress" line in the "Credit Needed for Next Badge" would be useful. This way, in there is no pending credit, at least I would see easily if any of my machines are working on any.
5) If #4 can be done, it could as well be a link to the Tasks page, filtered for In Progress tasks for subprojects summarized by that row.
6) And, if #4 can be done, given that the server already knows how much credit on average that particular task gets upon validation across a vast number of hosts, it could multiply N with that average and display "N tasks are in progress, possible upcoming credit: N*AvgCrdt".
7) In addition to what the Next Badge column shows currently, it could also show just the icons of the rest of the line up for that project, to the right of the Gold/Silver/Emerald etc. text, just to show how many more badges are there left to go through...
8) And, finally, a legend at the bottom of the page that goes like:
(Bronze square icon without letter) Bronze 10,000
(Silver square icon without letter) Silver 100,000
(Gold square icon without letter) Gold 500,000
(Amethyst square icon without letter) Amethyst 1,000,000
(Ruby square icon without letter) Ruby 2,000,000
(Turquoise square icon without letter) Turquoise 5,000,000
. . .
Well, just thoughts... :)
Tuna
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 Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator
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7) In addition to what the Next Badge column shows currently, it could also show just the icons of the rest of the line up for that project, to the right of the Gold/Silver/Emerald etc. text, just to show how many more badges are there left to go through...
I'll let JimB respond to most of this because that particular page is "his", while the overall badges are "mine". So I'll tackle #7.
I'm assuming 7 is all about "This is what I have yet to achieve.", right?
Anyone remember Pokemon? Their catchphrase was something like "Gotta catch them all!" And, of course, they would always make more for you to collect.
Badges are a bit like that.
The new badge system is designed to never run out of badges. If you think about it, the whole purpose of badges is to give you goal to aim for. If we run out of badges, there's no more goals. This provides a significant incentive for some folks to crunch different projects instead of working only on their favorites. It's just some colored pixels on the screen, but even I'm not immune to it, and I'm the one who designed this latest iteration. I'm crunching ESP-Sieve right now so I -- CAN -- GET -- THAT -- VERY -- LAST -- AMETHYST -- BADGE -- FINALLY!!!.
Six years ago there were only three badges, bronze, silver, and gold. You got gold for getting 500,000 or 1,000,000 points, depending on the project. The admins in charge at that time then added to that the amethyst and ruby badges, with ruby being awarded for either 2,000,000 or 4,000,000 points. There were a lot of people who achieved those badges, some even did so in every active project. While satisfying for the moment, doing so also removes all the goals from the incentive (aka badge) system.
It was clear we needed more badges.
This was about three years ago. You can read about this here: New badge proposal - discuss!
The full list of badges can be found here: Badges
There's 18 badges, the highest being double emerald at 50 billion credits.
The important facts are that there's 18 badge levels and they top out at 50 billion credits. Displaying the full list as "goals" might be counter-productive and discourage people from participating, and of course we're aiming for the exact opposite reaction. When someone looks at that page, they should see "This is my next goal!" rather than "Oh my gosh, I'll never get them all."
And -- you would need a lot of space to display all those badges. It would also look silly, in my opinion, to have row after row of the same umpteen badges. Most people (myself included) will never get anywhere close to half of the badges.
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Ideas that came to my mind...
Those are all good ideas - I thought of them all while writing the badges page. Here's why they weren't done:
1) The project name on each row could be a link leading to the Tasks page already filtered for all my tasks for that project. For example, "321 LLR" on my http://www.primegrid.com/show_badges.php?userid=388469 would be linked to http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?userid=388469&offset=0&show_names=0&state=0&appid=7
Right now, anyone can click on any badge for any user (think the forums) and see that person's badges. I use the system that way. The link you refer to only works if you're trying to see your own jobs. Everyone else gets a one-line message saying "No access". Could I program it so that the page is aware of whether the badges it's showing belong to the current user? Sure. That's how the page will always say "Your Badges" when looking at your own, regardless of whether the userid is displayed in the URL.
There's an issue of privacy here. If a user chooses to hide his hosts, you can of course see the tasks associated with the host but you have no idea what user it belongs to. I will not break that privacy by letting a user see all the jobs of another user. Showing the tasks links them to the user, bypassing the hidden host(s).
Putting that aside, the badge display page doesn't really run off appids. Every app record points to a single badge but multiple apps can point to the same badge (as happens with all the GFN as well as with PPS, PPSE and PPS MEGA). I can't supply multiple appids to the results.php page and I'm pretty sure changing it to do so will break how it works. But you addressed that:
2) Of course, this wouldn't work for projects like "GFN" or others that are a collection of more granular subprojects on the Tasks page. In that case, any chance to actually add a GFN etc. "summary project" to the Tasks page, and link to that?
I have no interest in writing a page like this. But the link for a GFN or PPS/E/MEGA could display the results page without any subproject selected. Then you can see counts on all of them and select one with a single mouse click. That change has now been made and is live. It only shows up if looking at your own badges.
3) If there is a pending credit for a row on the Badges page, it would be nice if it could be a link to the http://www.primegrid.com/pending.php page, but filtered to the resultIDs contributing to that pending credit.
Again, this could span multiple appids and quite probably multiple hosts. Multiple appids won't work. And you can only see your own Pending page.
4) And, if any of my machines have In Progress tasks towards a row in the Badges page, a new "N tasks are in progress" line in the "Credit Needed for Next Badge" would be useful. This way, in there is no pending credit, at least I would see easily if any of my machines are working on any.
5) If #4 can be done, it could as well be a link to the Tasks page, filtered for In Progress tasks for subprojects summarized by that row.
Now the pending page showing incomplete data (most appids are hidden). Pending credit is a standard BOINC page. That's just going to cause confusion among users and we'll be answering the same questions about it over and over again. Trust me on that. You can sort the pending credit page by clicking on any of the column headers (for example to sort by host or project).
6) And, if #4 can be done, given that the server already knows how much credit on average that particular task gets upon validation across a vast number of hosts, it could multiply N with that average and display "N tasks are in progress, possible upcoming credit: N*AvgCrdt".
This was a very deliberate decision on my part. We will absolutely not count in-progress tasks in the badges page. There are users with huge numbers of tasks in progress, most of which will time out or otherwise never finish. The numbers would again be misleading and cause great confusion.
7) In addition to what the Next Badge column shows currently, it could also show just the icons of the rest of the line up for that project, to the right of the Gold/Silver/Emerald etc. text, just to show how many more badges are there left to go through...
8) And, finally, a legend at the bottom of the page that goes like:
(Bronze square icon without letter) Bronze 10,000
(Silver square icon without letter) Silver 100,000
<snip>
I agree with Mike on this. The badges deliberately run much higher than most of our users will ever get. We wanted all users to have a next badge to aspire to, even those with server farms at their disposal. The last thing I want to do is to discourage anyone.
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Jim, first off, thanks fur implementing the page in the first place. Second, thanks for taking the time for the detailed and quick reply. And, lastly, a HUGE thanks for implementing #1 to the extend it was possible. That is a huge usability addition. Now one can just click and see the current state of relevant tasks, as far as possible. That's why it was at the top of my list. Rest was icing on the cake... :)
Three things:
1) Could the cells with PPS LLR and GFN, i.e. those leading to ALL, also list in parenthesis the subprojects they are comprised of, like "(PPS, PPSE)"? In case of GFN, it is intuitively clear that it is GFN*, but that is not the case for PPS LLR given that PPS Sieve is separate; imagine you are a new cruncher, not having read through all the details, yet... :) Or, some other indication as to what they entail that you feel would be appropriate.
2) Shouldn't Woodall LLR lead to WOO? Currently it leads to ALL.
3) I still whish I could easily see at least an indication without any numbers whether a row has some in-progress task(s) on some of my hosts. Currently, I see what was done, I see what is pending, but I don't see that something is being churned. Maybe just a "(with tasks in progress)" under the value in the last column? Then clicking on the links you just implemented would give the details, but the visual clue would be there. [BTW, my #4 and #5 were about in-progress tasks, not pending]
Again: THANKS for the quick response and action...
Tuna | |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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The names of the PPS LLR and the PSA badges now show the projects/activities that generate credit. The Woodall link contained a typo and is now fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.
In-progress tasks just don't belong on the badges page, at least not in my opinion. If a count shows up, I'll get asked why there isn't an estimated credit showing. And credit should not show up for jobs that have not and possibly won't ever be completed. Sorry, but that's something I feel very strongly about.
I'll think about some kind of subtle visual indicator that there's work in progress. I just don't want the badges page to be so busy as to bury the relevant information. There are other places to look for in-progress tasks. | |
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The names of the PPS LLR and the PSA badges now show the projects/activities that generate credit. The Woodall link contained a typo and is now fixed.
Thanks!
I'll think about some kind of subtle visual indicator that there's work in progress.
That would be totally awesome! I already gave up on any numbers regarding in-progress tasks, given your convincing arguments. What I really want is an indication that one of my 14 hosts is actually working on a project without the need to click on all the links.
Thanks!!
Tuna
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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What I really want is an indication that one of my 14 hosts is actually working on a project without the need to click on all the links.
The task list page -- particularly, the headings -- show that very well. Just click on "in progress" and only the sub-projects that have in-progress tasks will have numbers next to them. That's precisely why I designed it to work like that, so that you can, at a glance, see all the sub-projects that have in-progress tasks. Or pending tasks, of error tasks, etc.
(That page is a standard BOINC page, except for the headings. That's something I wrote and it's a lot more useful and informative than the standard page IMHO.)
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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I've now made what are probably the final changes to the badges page. If you're looking at someone else's badges the screen remains unchanged. But if looking at your own badges, here's what's different:
Any multi-subproject badge now lists all the projects that feed into that badge and each item is a link to see work on that subproject. The badge name links to the full results.php page showing everything (since that page is already quite complicated and showing multiple projects at a time would require a redesign).
If there is work in progress, a hammer and pick symbol appears in the rightmost column. Hovering the mouse over it shows the number of tasks in progress. It's also a link and clicking on it will bring up a page of in-progress tasks for that badge. For multi-subproject badges, that'll be a pending page for all subprojects and with one mouse click you can select any subproject individually.
Pending credit is now a link and will bring up a list of pending tasks for that badge. As above, if the badge is made up of multiple projects the page linked will show pending work on all subprojects.
The mouseover text on each badge again shows the short name of the project. For a few days it was showing the full list of projects making up PPS LLR, GFN and PSA. Now it's again consistent with how the mouseover text looks elsewhere - like in the forums or a show_user.php page. Anywhere badges appear, they're always a link to that user's show_badges.php page (unless you're already on that page).
This satisfies my need to not mess up the formatting of the badges page and show in-progress tasks as requested. I will not be showing estimated credit for in-progress tasks as that's a case of counting your chickens before they're hatched, as my grandmother used to say. I believe the hammer and pick symbol will show up in all browsers - it's a standard UTF-8 symbol as shown here. | |
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Duuuuuuuude! This is awesome! It is a feast of features! Now the whole thing is very very usable and complete.
Now, I will test. If lucky, you won't hear back from me. :-)
Thanks a load!
Tuna
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"GFN (15, 16, 17Low, 17Mega, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)": "22" on purpose to be accurate, or meant to type "WR" since it leads to WR?
The rest looks just awesome. Me, happy. :)
Tuna
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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A GFN22 prime is no longer a world record prime. The GIMPS project found a new prime and any n=22 prime in the current candidate range would be smaller. You'll find that much/most of this site doesn't call that subproject WR any more. See http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=6597 and http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=6609 for more information. | |
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A GFN22 prime is no longer a world record prime. The GIMPS project found a new prime and any n=22 prime in the current candidate range would be smaller. You'll find that much/most of this site doesn't call that subproject WR any more. See http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=6597 for more information.
What about the plan class for the app_info? Is it still on the old convention or did we update it already?
Speaking of improvements to the site, how about adding a column on the manual sieve section including the optimal sieve depth? | |
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Ok so a little hijack. First wonderful changes to badges page!
And would it be possible to show avg credit on the preference page? I ask as that ties into the upcoming Feb prime tour.
Cheers
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@AggieThePew
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Very nice changes with the Badges page.
This project is probably the best organized amongst all of the BOINC projects! | |
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Very nice indeed !!!
Thank you.
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Yves GallotVolunteer developer
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My only suggestion would be to use "nice colors".
Emerald is not green, ruby is not red, turquoise is not blue, etc (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors).
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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My only suggestion would be to use "nice colors".
Emerald is not green, ruby is not red, turquoise is not blue, etc (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors).
Here's the existing badge colors, alongside what the badges would look like if the colors from that webpage were used:
  bronze 10K
  silver 100K
  gold 500K
  amethyst 1M
  ruby 2M
  turquoise 5M
  jade 10M
  sapphire 20M
  emerald 50M
  double bronze 100M
  double silver 200M
  double gold 500M
  double amethyst 1B
  double ruby 2B
  double turquoise 5B
  double jade 10B
  double sapphire 20B
  double emerald 50B
My own thoughts:
Silver is unchanged. All the other colors are at least somewhat different.
Amethyst is purple (correctly) instead of pink. It's also dark enough so that the lettering probably should be changed to white (done).
Ruby is much nicer. Text changed to white.
The new jade and emerald are too similar.
Thoughts?
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RafaelVolunteer tester
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The new jade and emerald are too similar.
Thoughts?
You just said it yourself. Jade and emerald are too similar.
Liked: New Bronze, New Amethyst and New Jade (though that's more of a hate for old Jade rather than actually liking it).
Disliked: New Ruby and New Sapphire.
Not sure: Turquoise and Emerald. I think I like new Turquoise and old Emerald better, but it's fine either way. Maybe just ditch Jade altogether and replace it with New Emerald =) | |
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Yves GallotVolunteer developer
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The new jade and emerald are too similar.
Thoughts?
That is not bad.
Jade could be darker and emerald lighter.
See Monochromatic Color @ http://www.colorhexa.com/00a86b and http://www.colorhexa.com/50c878
For the rest, "des goûts et des couleurs, on ne discute pas" (there is no accounting for tastes and colors).
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I really like the additions to the badge page. Well done Jim.
Also, I agree with Yves suggestion for Jade and Emerald colors.
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Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713
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Dave
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There has never been enough distinction between silver & amethyst for me. I like all the new colours Ruby is brighter, sapphire is richer etc. If they're mire accurate all the better. Proposed turq is better being a cyan, jade is less dull than before, emerald us fine. | |
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The names of the badges refer to gems. Therefore, the colours of the gems should be used. A ruby is not ruby at all, it is ruby red (#9B111E). The same goes for emerald and jade. We should go for the colour of the gems, not the colour in a dictionary.
So I don't like the new ruby.
The old jade could be used for emerald and thus make emerald and the new jade different enough.
The rest seems better than before, esp. amethyst and turquoise.
Not totally happy with sapphire: it seems a bit too dark, unlike the gem. | |
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Yves GallotVolunteer developer
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bronze
or Bronze Gold (#C9AE5D) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_%28color%29, lighter => more readable, bronze is like chocolate.
silver
gold
amethyst
ruby
=> Ruby Red (#9B111E) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_%28color%29
turquoise
jade
=> may be lighter because jade gem can be white and it must not look like emerald
sapphire
=> Sapphire Blue (#0067A5) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire_%28color%29
emerald
=> Spanish Emerald (#009975) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_%28color%29, dark. | |
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Dave
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Just noticed all my touchscreen typos in my 07:48 post ;).
Turq maybe a tad more cyany to keep it distant from silver (looks similar to me). Or a tweak to silver (a multi-shade shine effect may be possible). | |
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Yves GallotVolunteer developer
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I vote for
Bronze Gold #C9AE5D
Silver #C0C0C0
Gold #FFD700
Amethyst #9966CC
Rubine Red #D10056
Turquoise #40E0D0
Jade (light) #1FCE8F
Sapphire Blue #0067A5
Illuminating Emerald #319177
and I get back to math and coding :o)
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On the pending task by project, just wondering why the sieves tasks show on the llr pending projects.
Cheers
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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On the pending task by project, just wondering why the sieves tasks show on the llr pending projects.
Are you looking at one of the "all" screens that you get when clicking on PPS or GFN pending? As I said earlier in the thread, we show all projects then because that page is either one project or all projects. The results.php page is already pretty complicated and trying to modify it to show multiple specific projects would break it more than I'd want to fix. | |
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Amethyst is purple (correctly) instead of pink.
The best improvement :-)
jade
=> may be lighter because jade gem can be white and it must not look like emerald
emerald
Fine with me.
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My stats
Badge score: 1*1 + 5*1 + 8*3 + 9*11 + 10*1 + 11*1 + 12*3 = 186 | |
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There has never been enough distinction between silver & amethyst for me. I like all the new colours Ruby is brighter, sapphire is richer etc. If they're mire accurate all the better. Proposed turq is better being a cyan, jade is less dull than before, emerald us fine.
Same for me but I am very color blind. I personally would prefer the suggested change.
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I like Michael's initial proposals here, but also agree that the only issue is that jade and emerald look too similar. I would simply keep emerald looking bright green, and keep jade looking more or less how it is, although I think it looks dull and ugly compared with everything else. However, for me it is currently motivating me to upgrade my GFN badge, so every cloud...
The bronze is a MASSIVE improvement. Currently it's simply brown. The new one might well encourage new users to get their first badges.
Silver and amethyst look absolutely nothing alike to me (but again, I prefer the "new" amethyst).
Edit: Actually, I vote for turquoise to stay how it is, too. The "new" one looks a bit duller. | |
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The Your Badges page is a wonderful addition. I am using it more and more and was wondering if there was any possible way to add an extra column that would show the count of your primes or factors.
Cheers Rick | |
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