PrimeGrid
Please visit donation page to help the project cover running costs for this month

Toggle Menu

Join PrimeGrid

Returning Participants

Community

Leader Boards

Results

Other

drummers-lowrise

Advanced search

Message boards : Seventeen or Bust : Spliting SoB WUs in smaller pieces?

Author Message
Profile Rincewind
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Dec 06
Posts: 10
ID: 4079
Credit: 2,773,790
RAC: 167
ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,421)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,705)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (305,159)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,147,389)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (40,852)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,504)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,441)
Message 80628 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 7:52:41 UTC

Hi,

Is there a posibility to split the SoB WUs in smaller pieces/WUs?

Imho this would have some advantages:
- people which crunch only some hours per day/per week can contribute to SoB
- if a small WU is lost (error/hardware crash ...) the 'wasted' time is lower compared to a full WU

Maybe it is possible to use some checkboxes in the projectselection like:
Send full WU = Yes/No
Send small WU =Yes/No

____________

Profile Pooh Bear 27Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 10 May 09
Posts: 709
ID: 39821
Credit: 407,730,319
RAC: 173
Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,734,854)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,576,209)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,389,837)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,425,342)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,628)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,416,106)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,673,438)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,531,383)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (202,192,765)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 80629 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 9:31:06 UTC

It would be hard to do, this means a whole rewrite of the software. You are doing a complete check of a single number and to split that means it would have to send a lot of data back to the server, the server would have to then create a new unit out of that data and then send that out. It would take a lot longer to get a completed unit. Plus the people that get the first part(s) would never find a prime as you are just doing part of the work.

Just not conceivable.

____________
My lucky numbers are 121*2^4553899-1 and 3756801695685*2^666669±1

Profile Rincewind
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Dec 06
Posts: 10
ID: 4079
Credit: 2,773,790
RAC: 167
ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,421)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,705)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (305,159)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,147,389)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (40,852)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,504)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,441)
Message 80630 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 9:53:39 UTC

I get your points,

my idea came from the fact that the SoB-Client (and mprime) are able to pause and resume the work on a candidate so I thought it would be 'easy' to stop the job after a certain amount of iterations and send the needed informations back to the server which can resend these informations as a new WU (I have absolutely no idea about the amount of work this would cause).
For those who want the chance to find a prime there could be the WU-switch I mentioned.
____________

HonzaProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 15 Aug 05
Posts: 1893
ID: 352
Credit: 3,141,484,578
RAC: 40,664
Discovered 7 mega primesEliminated 4 conjecture "k"sFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,425,701)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (60,526,018)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,853,190)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,309,119)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (122,476,468)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,563,867)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,573,710)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,883,529)SGS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,573,529)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,338,924)Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,956,094)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (115,948,450)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,504,945)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (513,057,580)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (232,724,773)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (764,816,358)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (535,232,795)
Message 80631 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 12:23:38 UTC

This it not the first time such a suggestion was experessed.

See this post in "Send WUs to 3 users instead of 2?" for example.

As PB pointed, it would need rewritting a lot of aplication and BOINC server code, quite complex.
And potentional gain is questionable.

Another approach is to make LLR running on GPU. This has been tested but benefit was not there - it wasn't consdiderable fast and still used CPU code to feed GPU.

Yet another approach is to make LLR application (that does SoB test) multi-threaded.
A single test would run shorted time - 1/2, 1/4 or even less time depending on number of cores and overall effeciency of application.
But this would also need a considerable rewrite of LLR app, extensive testing and some adjustemnt to the BOINC server side.

Above all, PrimeGrid project is not author of LLR but rather a contributor and intensive user.
____________
My stats
Badge score: 1*1 + 5*1 + 8*3 + 9*11 + 10*1 + 11*1 + 12*3 = 186

Profile Rincewind
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Dec 06
Posts: 10
ID: 4079
Credit: 2,773,790
RAC: 167
ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,421)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,705)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (305,159)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,147,389)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (40,852)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,504)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,441)
Message 80632 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 12:28:50 UTC

OK, thank you both for the answers.

I thought that it is 'only' necesarry to change the behavior from the application.
But it looks like there is a lot more to do. thx.
____________

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 13513
ID: 53948
Credit: 236,922,854
RAC: 3,199
Found 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 5 mega primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesThe "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 6 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,624,591)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,269)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,008,485)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,252,256)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,911,985)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,733,355)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 80633 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 12:45:10 UTC - in response to Message 80632.

OK, thank you both for the answers.

I thought that it is 'only' necesarry to change the behavior from the application.
But it looks like there is a lot more to do. thx.


Unlike some other projects, you can't just make these tasks longer or shorter. We can with sieves, but not with primality tests. It's already as short as possible: it's doing just one test.

It's theoretically possible to split the single test into multiple parts, but at tremendous cost in terms of disk storage and bandwidth, since we'd have to move very large checkpoint files back and forth and store them on the server. Additionally, the LLR program (which is written by an outside party) would need to be modified to stop after a specific number of iterations.

So while it could in theory be done, it's extremely unlikely to happen.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Profile Pooh Bear 27Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 10 May 09
Posts: 709
ID: 39821
Credit: 407,730,319
RAC: 173
Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,734,854)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,576,209)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,389,837)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,425,342)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,628)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,416,106)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,673,438)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,531,383)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (202,192,765)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 80638 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014 | 22:26:41 UTC

CUDA 6.5 is supposed to have some enhancements that a GPU LLR may benefit from. I know it's not a top priority, but something the developers could look at when time permits.

Message boards : Seventeen or Bust : Spliting SoB WUs in smaller pieces?

[Return to PrimeGrid main page]
DNS Powered by DNSEXIT.COM
Copyright © 2005 - 2021 Rytis Slatkevičius (contact) and PrimeGrid community. Server load 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
Generated 17 Jun 2021 | 22:04:34 UTC