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Message boards : Problems and Help : Estimated Runtimes Way out of Wack

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Brook HarsteProject donor
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Joined: 30 Nov 08
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Credit: 786,659,071
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,067,502)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,010,955)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,819,044)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,501,906)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,842,320)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,667,951)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,120,365)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,636,723)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,201,403)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,628,223)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,061,985)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,534)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,370,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,372)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (129,430,775)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,083,315)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,629,248)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,759,865)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (278,228,603)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,556,062)
Message 45204 - Posted: 19 Dec 2011 | 17:56:25 UTC

My pps sieve for cpu (i7 950) is 1734 hours and the pps sieve for gpu (GTX470) is 6 hours.
It runs everything at high priority for 60 minutes (cpu w/u) and starts another one.
Now I have a huge list of started work units.
Something is not right. This is happening on a lot of my PCs. Anyone else seeing this?
____________

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,692)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,876)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,979)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (148,018)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (140,441)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,475)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (120,939)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,783)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,115)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,459)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (202,757)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,908,135)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,450,104)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,966)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,525)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,015)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (246,369)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (226,594)
Message 45207 - Posted: 19 Dec 2011 | 19:17:55 UTC - in response to Message 45204.

IIRC, this was a reported problem for some boinc-client versions.
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen

Brook HarsteProject donor
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Credit: 786,659,071
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,067,502)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,010,955)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,819,044)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,501,906)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,842,320)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,667,951)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,120,365)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,636,723)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,201,403)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,628,223)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,061,985)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,534)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,370,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,372)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (129,430,775)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,083,315)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,629,248)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,759,865)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (278,228,603)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,556,062)
Message 45220 - Posted: 19 Dec 2011 | 23:46:25 UTC - in response to Message 45207.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2011 | 0:10:37 UTC

IIRC, this was a reported problem for some boinc-client versions.

I'm using 6.12.33 on Linux.
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,692)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,876)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,979)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (148,018)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (140,441)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,475)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (120,939)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,783)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,115)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,459)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (202,757)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,908,135)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,450,104)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,966)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,525)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,015)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (246,369)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (226,594)
Message 45223 - Posted: 20 Dec 2011 | 0:41:41 UTC - in response to Message 45220.

Have a look in the change-logs at BOINC core client.
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen

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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 45226 - Posted: 20 Dec 2011 | 1:06:09 UTC - in response to Message 45204.

My pps sieve for cpu (i7 950) is 1734 hours and the pps sieve for gpu (GTX470) is 6 hours.
It runs everything at high priority for 60 minutes (cpu w/u) and starts another one.
Now I have a huge list of started work units.
Something is not right. This is happening on a lot of my PCs. Anyone else seeing this?


My 990x started on 1250hrs -- still off a bit @ 80% complete -- a pentium D had 7600hrs

Apart from crazy runtimes at start every thing is normal
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,155,564)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (539,651)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,887,165)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,100)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,681)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (74,328)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (58,402)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (10,359)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (242,475)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,115,145)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,572)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (459,663)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (134,977)
Message 45301 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 7:03:02 UTC

I have noticed it as well...Remaining times are really crazy!

I posted something about this in the challenge thread and was given an explanation by Neometal. It has something to do with the Duration Correction Factor.

In Win7 64-bit, in \Program Data\BOINC, there's a file called "client_state." And in the PrimeGrid project section, you'll find the tag for duration_correction_factor.

Yesterday, mine was slightly over 28...meaning that the "estimated" time to complete the task was multiplied by 28. So a crunch that normally takes 62 mins (1:02:00) will show as 28:55:56.

This also affects how many WUs you can download, as BOINC looks at the Remaining amount of time to figure out how many more WUs you can download to meet you "Days of Work" limit. There doesn't seem to be any effect on the actual crunching of the WU, just a crazy amount of time to complete the WU.

There is a work-around provided by Neometal, and it works until PG changes the information when a new WU is downloaded. I can't remember the thread id, but the steps are simple:

1 - stop BOINC
2 - edit the duration_correction_factor tag, located in the PrimeGrid project section of the client_state file. This file, in Win7 at least, can be found in C:\ProgramData\BOINC. ONLY USE NOTEPAD to edit the file.
3 - save the changes
4 - restart BOINC

Again, it works, but only temporarily. I'm not sure why PG would do this...keep change the DCF like this, unless it was to keep people from hoarding the Solstice WUs.

This problem doesn't seem to affect any other project that I crunch, only PG. Most every other DCF is close to 1, or maybe a little lower.

Maybe an admin or project tech can enlighten why this began just a couple days before the Solstice challenge. And if they DO enlighten us, please don't use words that have a value of over $0.50, so common crunchers, like myself, can understand what is being said...lol.
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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 45310 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 9:15:17 UTC - in response to Message 45301.

I made this comment in another thread http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45249

I have been around since Oct 2008 and it has never changed -- apparently its a Boinc issue
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,820,430)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,744)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,158,496)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,012,781)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,594,991)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,135,447)
Message 45324 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 12:15:10 UTC - in response to Message 45301.

I'm not sure why PG would do this...keep change the DCF like this, unless it was to keep people from hoarding the Solstice WUs.


The projects don't set the DCF. It's set automatically by the BOINC software.

It's probably a BOINC problem, not a PG problem. BOINC has always had problems with the DCF under certain circumstances.

Because the problem manifests itself here and not other projects might seem to imply that PG is doing something wrong, intentionally or otherwise. However, that's not necessarily the case. PG may be merely doing something different that the logic in BOINC should, but doesn't, handle correctly.


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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 45325 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 12:24:19 UTC - in response to Message 45324.

I'm not sure why PG would do this...keep change the DCF like this, unless it was to keep people from hoarding the Solstice WUs.


The projects don't set the DCF. It's set automatically by the BOINC software.

It's probably a BOINC problem, not a PG problem. BOINC has always had problems with the DCF under certain circumstances.

Because the problem manifests itself here and not other projects might seem to imply that PG is doing something wrong, intentionally or otherwise. However, that's not necessarily the case. PG may be merely doing something different that the logic in BOINC should, but doesn't, handle correctly.




I had it all explained to me back in 2008 - there is an ancient post but I am not going looking -- it explained in detail what the issues were - it is definitely a Boinc problem that PG is powerless to fix as Michael is saying
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Discovered 5 mega primesEliminated 3 conjecture "k"sFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,556,284)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,296,190)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (37,998,760)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,309,119)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,138,861)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,462,639)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (67,865,553)SR5 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,320,316)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,602,901)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (57,441,313)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,913,399)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,170,142)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,504,945)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (504,377,255)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (202,960,207)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (615,704,481)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (531,236,492)
Message 45327 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 13:12:37 UTC

BOINC client does DCF calculation and in my opinon it is (IN GENERAL) good feature.
http://www.boinc-wiki.info/Result_Duration_Correction_Factor

On project side, each WU has template and it says (among other parameters) <rsc_fpops_est> - basically how CPU demanding particular WU is.
If each WU would be provided with more accurate rsc_fpops_est, we would not have seen this problem. This would put more complexity on proejct side...but number of digits in each WU would work pretty well.
If it is set per sub-project (such as PPS) and doesn't take into account that each (batch of) WUs may be significantly different in run-times...DCF takes place.

Some projects are running WUs where run-time can't be estimated beforehand or it is very variable (like renedering where each frame is unique). Best you can do in such a case is give some average...
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Brook HarsteProject donor
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Joined: 30 Nov 08
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Credit: 786,659,071
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,067,502)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,010,955)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,819,044)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,501,906)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,842,320)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,667,951)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,120,365)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,636,723)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,201,403)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,628,223)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,061,985)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,534)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,370,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,372)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (129,430,775)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,083,315)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,629,248)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,759,865)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (278,228,603)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,556,062)
Message 45338 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 15:19:40 UTC - in response to Message 45310.
Last modified: 21 Dec 2011 | 15:22:43 UTC

I made this comment in another thread http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45249

I have been around since Oct 2008 and it has never changed -- apparently its a Boinc issue

This is a new issue with this project only and it just started 4 or 5 days, or so, ago.
I do a lot of other projects and I'm only see this issue here.
____________

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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,067,502)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,010,955)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,819,044)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,501,906)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,842,320)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,667,951)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,120,365)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,636,723)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,201,403)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,628,223)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,061,985)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,027,534)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,370,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,372)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (129,430,775)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,083,315)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,629,248)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,759,865)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (278,228,603)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,556,062)
Message 45374 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 21:50:49 UTC - in response to Message 45338.

I made this comment in another thread http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45249

I have been around since Oct 2008 and it has never changed -- apparently its a Boinc issue

This is a new issue with this project only and it just started 4 or 5 days, or so, ago.
I do a lot of other projects and I'm only see this issue here.

Issue was explained here:
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45370

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Message 45376 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 22:25:59 UTC - in response to Message 45374.

I made this comment in another thread http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45249

I have been around since Oct 2008 and it has never changed -- apparently its a Boinc issue

This is a new issue with this project only and it just started 4 or 5 days, or so, ago.
I do a lot of other projects and I'm only see this issue here.

Issue was explained here:
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45370


What i am refering to is the long standing Boinc PG WU runtime calc issue -- where the runtime calc take a while to settle down -- yes it has improved over time but I think thats due to the effort of John - Lennart & others @ PG -- the thread you refer to is exactly my point -- PG has to tweak things -- The Boinc issue is still there -- yes - I believe it only effects PG
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Message 45379 - Posted: 21 Dec 2011 | 23:37:10 UTC - in response to Message 45376.

What i am refering to is the long standing Boinc PG WU runtime calc issue -- where the runtime calc take a while to settle down -- yes it has improved over time but I think thats due to the effort of John - Lennart & others @ PG -- the thread you refer to is exactly my point -- PG has to tweak things -- The Boinc issue is still there -- yes - I believe it only effects PG
Yes/No.
Yes, it only affects PG in the moment and No, other would be affected too if they would have so many different subprojects with a wide range of computation times.

BTW, the boinc dev's released client version 7.0.3...
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Message 45403 - Posted: 22 Dec 2011 | 8:06:28 UTC - in response to Message 45374.


This is a new issue with this project only and it just started 4 or 5 days, or so, ago.
I do a lot of other projects and I'm only see this issue here.
Issue was explained here:
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=3812&nowrap=true#45370


I understand what everyone is saying, and I apologize if the statement that PG was the cause of the extended run times showing in BOINC. I just find it rather coincidental that BOINC messes up the estimated running times for PG with 11 projects, when there's no problem with WCG and their 13 projects.

As brinktastee stated, I haven't noticed this issue come up until today. Granted, my association with PG hasn't been nearly as long as others, I didn't notice the time issue until relatively the same time as brinktastee. I have always had PG crunching WUs since I joined team Sicituradastra. this year, and this issue is new to me.

This may be the first time I have participated in the PG challenges, but this IS the first time that the Remaining times have went crazy like this since I first joined. So I am sorry to say DoES, that though you may say this has been a continuing issue since 2008, this is the FIRST time in 9 months that this has happened to me, and when I notice an irregularity, I'm trying to find out what the problem may be, how long will it be before the problem can be fixed, and what can I do to fix it (if it's on my end).

My resulting question regarding this issue is as follows: If BOINC is the cause of the issue in overestimating the Remaining time, then shouldn't it only decrease as each WU is completed within the individual subproject?
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Message 45409 - Posted: 22 Dec 2011 | 10:00:23 UTC - in response to Message 45403.

I just find it rather coincidental that BOINC messes up the estimated running times for PG with 11 projects, when there's no problem with WCG and their 13 projects.

It's because the PPS tasks changed from 15 minutes to 3-5 hours without adjusting the GFLOP estimate. That made boinc think that everything will take 15x longer than normal.

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Message 45704 - Posted: 26 Dec 2011 | 20:47:36 UTC - in response to Message 45409.

I just find it rather coincidental that BOINC messes up the estimated running times for PG with 11 projects, when there's no problem with WCG and their 13 projects.

It's because the PPS tasks changed from 15 minutes to 3-5 hours without adjusting the GFLOP estimate. That made boinc think that everything will take 15x longer than normal.

I guess the question now is when will it be fixed. It's still happening.
Even SGS says it's going to take 5+ hours when it only take 10 minutes. I'd rather have it that way than it saying it only take 30 minutes and it actually take 3 or 4 hours in the case of PPS.

Also, I have my cache set for .1 days and I'm getting 4 days worth. Does this have to do with this issue also?
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Message 45705 - Posted: 26 Dec 2011 | 20:56:31 UTC - in response to Message 45704.

Also, I have my cache set for .1 days and I'm getting 4 days worth. Does this have to do with this issue also?


Yes.
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Message 45715 - Posted: 27 Dec 2011 | 0:47:01 UTC - in response to Message 45403.


This may be the first time I have participated in the PG challenges, but this IS the first time that the Remaining times have went crazy like this since I first joined. So I am sorry to say DoES, that though you may say this has been a continuing issue since 2008, this is the FIRST time in 9 months that this has happened to me, and when I notice an irregularity, I'm trying to find out what the problem may be, how long will it be before the problem can be fixed, and what can I do to fix it (if it's on my end).

My resulting question regarding this issue is as follows: If BOINC is the cause of the issue in overestimating the Remaining time, then shouldn't it only decrease as each WU is completed within the individual subproject?


On looking back through the archived posts I would guess that there is a post on every page relating to this subject in some manner-- back in 2008 new members were aborting WU's soon after downloading when seeing that they would not finish in time (due to Boinc over estimated runtimes)-- Being a newb I did this myself a few times until I began calculating the runtime for myself -- As an Engineer the the shoddy calc's offended me somewhat so I started asking questions to see if there was a solution to the issue - It was a concern back then that PG were losing new members as they saw the queer runtimes & detached

As I understand it PG has to work within the Boinc GUI which has a generalised formula that calcs runtimes across its many projects-- The highly variable PG WU's do not fit well with the Boinc calculation ---

Yes - I think there has been considerable improvement since 2008 thanks to PG admins but in observing the runtimes on my task page I can still see remnants of the old Boinc calculation issue -- When PG makes a big change on a work units range the old problem will surface as it did this time.

Yes - I would very much like to see it resolved as I think PG is still probably losing some new members when they first see the WU runtimes

DoES (aka Jim)
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Message 46982 - Posted: 15 Jan 2012 | 2:39:07 UTC

If it makes a difference, the times I am seeing are more inflated for my system that runs cpu and cuda than my laptop only running cpu.... I have also noticed this about the start of the solstice challenge when the gpu tasks were increased....

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Message 49139 - Posted: 7 Feb 2012 | 17:52:07 UTC
Last modified: 7 Feb 2012 | 18:26:50 UTC

This will not be resolved until the very core basis of how BOINC operates changes - and thats not likely for a very very very long time. It is not PG, and PG can do nothing about it. Same issue occurs on all BOINC projects to a lesser or greater degree.

You will find thread after thread after thread about this plastered all over the BOINC boards. The time calculation can be affected by a large number of factors ...

- changing WU size
- running a different Project WU compared to recent past
- resinstalling BOINC
- starting a new WU in a new project that has not been run before
- Time owed to another project
- Debt owed overall
- Percentage of share allocated
- change hardware (cpu or gpu)
....

ack .... the list is huge......

Given a steady state, and not changing WUs or projects BOINC "learns" from previous work, change anything, and "previous state " changes, and you trip back until the BOINC counter catches up. The classic is having run short WUs on a machine (say 30 secs), then at some point change after a long run of several days. to a cpu WU with long run times circa an hour or more ..... it goes ballistic as the algorithim used effectively cant reconcile the change quickly enouigh and you end up with mega long predictions. After a while and a few WU completions (sometimes quite a large few rofl), the counter will catch up.

Its been looked at time and time and time again. Its not changing, it cant because of the way BOINC works at the lowest level. BOINC is designed with non attended machine farms in mind, and thats the cause of the issue at its Core - as in all things some parts of a system dont suit all, and some parts are not perfect - this is one of them. Project Staffs have the ability to enter some values on the server for when WUs are generated, and the cruncher client picks those up to alleviate the problem, and invariably Project Staffs do so, including PG, but they can never eliminate it, cant be done

The way to get round it (as such) is look at the timings in BAM - take the percentage run to date, and the time taken so far, then extrapolate to 100%

eg: if its taken 2 hours so far, and showing 80% done, you got 30 mins to go to completion.

That method works - as such - once (in general) the WU gets past (around) 30% done, usually fairly accurate by then, sometimes a bit longer especially if you have just changed from a short run to long run WU, or the other way round.

Certainly ignore predictions of silly long completion times, that rapidly changes as the WU proceeds, and never take time to completion as an absolute until its run a fair few of the same WU uninterupted.

Regards
Zy

Message boards : Problems and Help : Estimated Runtimes Way out of Wack

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