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Message boards :
Number crunching :
PCI to PCI Express adapter - some thoughts please!
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What I was aiming to do
I was hoping to find some old legacy PCI Nvidia graphics cards to carry out CUDA1.1 project crunching. This would, hopefully be using a Geforce 9500GT PCI 1GB low riser card.
Unfortunately all traces of probable sales at Amazon/eBay/etc both in the US and UK seem to have evaporated. Indeed, because of cash flow, I missed an opportunity to pick up 2 or 3 PCI only (not PCI Express) Geforce 8400GS, which are slower but also able to do CUDA 1.1 crunching.
Why?
I am running an old dual Prestonia Xeon server, under XP pro 32bit, which has an ATI HD3850 crunching Collatz, Milkyway, etc. But it also has 2 x PCI and 2 X PCI-X expansion slots I would like to drop a couple of 9500GTs in for PrimeGrid.
Research today
Doing Google investigations on PCI to PCI Express adapters/bridges I see that quite a range are available to allow PCI Express cards to be used in legacy PCI MoBos, etc. An example of the adapter can be seen here
So this is now my route of exploration to provide an upgrade path to a Geforce 9500GT 1GB low riser PCI Express card, which can be bought in the UK OK.
How I see it working
I see the purchase of a couple of these half height PCI to PCI Express adapters being plugged in to the 2 PCI expansion slots on the dual Xeon server. I would then plug a Geforce 9500GT low riser PCI-E card in to the top of each adapter, and then load the client, etc, and away we go.
Questions
My intention, originally, was to keep to Nvidia Geforce cards that were compatible with the PCI expansion bus (like a Geforce 9500GT). But, as the adapter allows PCI-E cards to be used, would it still be sensible to use, say, a GTX2xxx series card, or better, instead. Or should I stick with like-for-like?
If a more powerful Geforce card, than a 9500GT, with 32 shaders, is possible, what card should I be looking at? | |
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BiBi Volunteer tester Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10 Posts: 151 ID: 56425 Credit: 34,290,031 RAC: 0
                   
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Is this what you are looking for?
http://dollarshops.eu/product/Sparkle/SP95GT1024D2L-HP/Sparkle%209500GT%201024MB%20DVI%20VGA%20PCI
Maybe they still have one in stock. | |
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Ken_g6 Volunteer developer
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Joined: 4 Jul 06 Posts: 915 ID: 3110 Credit: 183,164,814 RAC: 0
                        
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If a more powerful Geforce card, than a 9500GT, with 32 shaders, is possible, what card should I be looking at?
It looks like one is possible. If your power supply can handle it and you can find one, this would be a great card for a PCI slot!
Otherwise, the options are a GT430 or a GT240. I estimate that a GT430 should do slightly better in PrimeGrid; but I have no actual test results either way. Unless it's clocked higher, a GT440 probably isn't an upgrade over a 430 for PrimeGrid.
Edit, hm, can a PCI-E X16 card fit in a PCI-E X1 slot?
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Is this what you are looking for?
http://dollarshops.eu/product/Sparkle/SP95GT1024D2L-HP/Sparkle%209500GT%201024MB%20DVI%20VGA%20PCI
Maybe they still have one in stock.
Yes. These are exactly the same as the 2 x Sparkle Geforce 9500GT 1GB PCI cards I currently run in the dual P3.
I got another link from Claggy, over at SETI NC, to Pinnacle Micro, Santa Ana, CA, who have the Jaton equivalent in stock, and I will order 2 (expensive for what they are but needed) in about 1 hour. | |
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Scott Brown Volunteer moderator Project administrator Volunteer tester Project scientist
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Joined: 17 Oct 05 Posts: 2165 ID: 1178 Credit: 8,777,295,508 RAC: 0
                                     
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It looks like one is possible. If your power supply can handle it and you can find one, this would be a great card for a PCI slot!
Otherwise, the options are a GT430 or a GT240. I estimate that a GT430 should do slightly better in PrimeGrid; but I have no actual test results either way. Unless it's clocked higher, a GT440 probably isn't an upgrade over a 430 for PrimeGrid.
The GT430 is faster than the GT240 on PG apps as it is a fermi chip with comparable clocks. While not the exact same comparison, I can offer a similar comparison of the faster clocked GT440 with comparably higher clocked 9600GSO cards (both 96 shader, the 9600GSO is the factory OC'd ASUS ultra model). In that case, the GT440 is about 5%-14% faster.
Edit, hm, can a PCI-E X16 card fit in a PCI-E X1 slot?
It cannot unless the back of the slot is cut open. Some of the low-end cards have been made on PCI-E x1 boards though (e.g., I have an old 8400 GS card that is PCI-E x1).
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141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!
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Well I solved, expensively, my problem of obtaining 2 x PCI GeForce 9500GT cards. These were ordered about 2 hours ago from Pinnacle Micro, and should be with me in a week or two.
I was looking at this PCI to PCI-E bridge to allow me to use the PCI-E DDR3 9500GT cards available as the old PCI ones seemingly had vanished.
I am happy for this thread to continue discussing whether such a bridge would allow legacy PCs (P3s and P4s) to make use of modern (within reason) GPUs. | |
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rroonnaalldd Volunteer developer Volunteer tester
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Joined: 3 Jul 09 Posts: 1213 ID: 42893 Credit: 34,634,263 RAC: 0
                 
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John the linked adapter would be useless for your gpu's because all nvidia beyound 9600 and 9800 are buspowered and have no 6-pin "Supplementary Power Connector". According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_PCI PCI supports only 25W, 15W or 7.5W while PCIe has support for 75W...
I know from peoples using Klaus Schmidingers Video Disk Recorder they had power-problems with some PCI-bus-based SAT-card's (DVB-S).
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
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Edit, hm, can a PCI-E X16 card fit in a PCI-E X1 slot?
Definitly not.
But you can use a PCI-E x1 card in a PCI-E x4 slot, I use them in my servers. If a PCI-E x16 slot is available, of course a PCI-E x16 Card is the best option.
It cannot unless the back of the slot is cut open. Some of the low-end cards have been made on PCI-E x1 boards though (e.g., I have an old 8400 GS card that is PCI-E x1).
I also have some computers/server, which only contain PCI-E x1. Best Perfomance for this actually is NVIDA ION with GT218 chipset (12W, 45 GFlops). I also tested Geforce G210 with the same GT218 chipset (30W, but only 40 GFlops). The 8400GS only reach 22 GFlops.
Indeed, because of cash flow, I missed an opportunity to pick up 2 or 3 PCI only (not PCI Express) Geforce 8400GS, which are slower but also able to do CUDA 1.1 crunching.
@John: Can you tell me if this works? I also tested it on an old computer with 2 8400GS PCI cards and second with 2 9300GS PCI cards, but only one card is running. Only black Monitor if both cards plugged in. I supposed it must be the "right" motherboard, my computer only contains an old oem board.
Regards Odi
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@John: Can you tell me if this works? I also tested it on an old computer with 2 8400GS PCI cards and second with 2 9300GS PCI cards, but only one card is running. Only black Monitor if both cards plugged in. I supposed it must be the "right" motherboard, my computer only contains an old oem board.
Regards Odi
I cannot really answer your question on PCI legacy cards for my old dual Prestonia (based on P4 architecture) Xeon server.
I was informed by Pinnacle Micro that the US Post Office confirmed they had left the US late on the night of Wednesday 15th, but they had not reached the UK. I am hoping to get them later next week, and can then play.
What I am hoping to do is to emulate my dual P3 Coppermine server which also has 2 x PCI 1GB Sparkle 9500GT low riser cards crunching PPS sieve.
In the P3 set up, the primary graphics slot is held by an ATI 7000 series card. This is useless at crunching, but serves all the PC graphics OK. I upgraded the PSU from the original 350w to 450W and inserted the 2 x PCI 9500GT cards. They were driven by NV 258.96 drivers, and I found I could activate and crunch with them after extending them to the desk top (no monitors or dummy plugs).
These have crunched PPSsieve fine for months. This PC is sick ATM, cause unknown until I make time to fiddle.
The dual Xeon has an ATI HD3850 in the primary AGP slot. This crunches ATI biased projects like Milkyway, Collatz and DNETC. It cannot run PPSsieve, as it is one series too old.
I am making the assumption that as the dual Xeon will be set up similar to the dual P3 that the PCI 9500GTs coming will work OK.
The only thing I an currently unsure of is whether I need to upgrade the 450W PSU to 500W or 550W. | |
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Hmm.. that's an good idea. I will test to serve graphics from another agp card, hopefully i can manage this in bios.
ATI HD3850 in the primary AGP slot. This crunches ATI biased projects like Milkyway, Collatz and DNETC. It cannot run PPSsieve, as it is one series too old.
But that's not that problem. I also have a HD4670 with AGP,works fine with Collatz, Dnetc or Moowrap. But you'll need the special AGP drivers, and these driver did not support OpenCL, although it is show in the application. I tested various ati drivers with lunatics-seti and pg. In both cases, the errors indicate missing openCL. These both application use OpenCL instead of ati-stream, like the other projects. So ATI-AGP Cards generelly not work with OpenCL Apps.
Regards Odi
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rroonnaalldd Volunteer developer Volunteer tester
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Joined: 3 Jul 09 Posts: 1213 ID: 42893 Credit: 34,634,263 RAC: 0
                 
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I tested various ati drivers with lunatics-seti and pg. In both cases, the errors indicate missing openCL. These both application use OpenCL instead of ati-stream, like the other projects. So ATI-AGP Cards generelly not work with OpenCL Apps.
Regards Odi
According to the PPS-sieve preferences: Proth Prime Search (Sieve)
Supported platforms:
Windows: 32bit, 64bit (+CUDA23, AMD OpenCL1)
Linux: 32bit, 64bit (+CUDA23, AMD OpenCL1)
Mac: 32bit, 64bit (+CUDA32)
1 Requires AMD Accelerated Parallel Processing (APP) drivers. If APP driver not available for your card, then the ATI Stream SDK is needed.
Recent average CPU time: 3:60:30
Have you tested this?
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
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Yes, i also installed the stream-sdk in different versions. But the error is the same:
Please (re)install OpenCL as described at
http://www.primegrid.com/result.php?resultid=273898745
Because of similar errors with lunatics openCL ati apps and some details about OpenCL i think that the special ATI-AGP Driver not support OpenCL at all.
I also read in some forums about problems with ATI-AGP Cards and the Folding@Home Applikation, which also use OpenCL.
Regards Odi
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Hmm.. that's an good idea. I will test to serve graphics from another agp card, hopefully i can manage this in bios.
Unfortunately it did not work. I tested one pci-card beside a ati-agp card as primary graphics adapter. But I belief the board is the problem, because the computer is booting, but no images on the screen.
I only habe 8400GS or 9300GS available for testing, i never seen a 9500GT as PCI here in germany.
I also have an ancient dual p3 coppermine server with five pci slots available rusting away. When i have time, i will set up them the test it on this machine.
Regards Odi
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rroonnaalldd Volunteer developer Volunteer tester
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Joined: 3 Jul 09 Posts: 1213 ID: 42893 Credit: 34,634,263 RAC: 0
                 
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I only habe 8400GS or 9300GS available for testing, i never seen a 9500GT as PCI here in germany.
Have you searched for in the red "I am not that stupid"-market? Sometimes they have interresting products.
April last year i got my single-slot GT240(GT218) for only 60 euros...
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
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Odicin
When I get the dual Xeon, with AGP, running again I am installing the 11.3 ATI driver with APP and AGP Hot Fix.
My OS is Win XP pro SP3 32bit, so I downloaded the AGP hotfix drivers for XP, which I found for 11.6 AGP hotfix here.
Clearly, you may wish to download the AGP hotfix relevant to your OS (assuming it is Win something) | |
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rroonnaalldd Volunteer developer Volunteer tester
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Joined: 3 Jul 09 Posts: 1213 ID: 42893 Credit: 34,634,263 RAC: 0
                 
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Only for information. Raistmer and Claggy posted in the AMD-thread OpenCL on AGP bus.
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
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Hmm... Interesting! Same issues at my machine. All AGP Catalyst Drivers from 11.01 up to the latest have the same problems with the resolution. Last "good" driver is 10.12 with Stream SDK 2.2.
But SSE2 could be the problem. The old AMD processor did not support SSE2, only SSE. I must check if there's even a sse2 processor for socket 462 boards available.
Regards Odi
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rroonnaalldd Volunteer developer Volunteer tester
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Joined: 3 Jul 09 Posts: 1213 ID: 42893 Credit: 34,634,263 RAC: 0
                 
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nVidia's GT430 is available for PCI-slots. If found one at Alternate.de/at...
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Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
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But SSE2 could be the problem. The old AMD processor did not support SSE2, only SSE. I must check if there's even a sse2 processor for socket 462 boards available.
Confirmed. New test system: Asrock Combo-Z with Athlon64 2800+ and the same AMD HD4670. Installation of AMD Catalyst 12.2 AGP Edition with APP running fine, all tested OpenCL projects (PPSSieve, POEM, Distrrtgen) running without problems.
Regards Odi
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I got a gtx460 to work in a Dell pc using a pci to pci e x16 cable. Cost was $20 but it plugged in just fine and the gpu came right up and ran. Of course I didn't upgrade the power supply so I have to watch that. the other issue I ran into was where to actually sit the card since there's not a place to put it other on the case. But the good news, it works :)
RR
edit: oh and I had to get some extra power cable splitters. | |
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Message boards :
Number crunching :
PCI to PCI Express adapter - some thoughts please! |