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Message boards : PrimeSearchTeam message board : Prime Grid Extra team challenge @ BOINCstats

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Profile AlanProject donor
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Joined: 8 Oct 08
Posts: 88
ID: 30274
Credit: 19,927,031
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,643)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,729)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,236,977)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,046)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (313,785)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,897,893)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,348)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,415,281)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,391)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,670)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,473,848)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,409,400)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,489)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,658)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,612,729)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,286)
Message 25523 - Posted: 11 Aug 2010 | 15:15:03 UTC - in response to Message 25520.

Hi PST,

Check out this thread:

http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=2648

Anybody interested in participating in this challenge? If so, I think Lennart is the only one who can sign us up:

From BOINCstats:

How does a team join a team challenge?

The founder of a team can enter a team into a challenge.

The team founder (here on BOINCstats) is the person who is founder of the team in most projects. To check who is the team founder, find your team on the profile pages and go to the profile. The founder is listed on the team profile page.

The team founder has a extra section in his BAM! menu (Team founder) and in that section he will find the Challenges. Once there everything is self explanatory.

The team founder is assigned by an automated process, he can't be set manually! If your team has a separate admin account then create a BAM! account for this admin as you would for a normal user (so same email and password). Include all projects but do not attach hosts to it or use any of the managing functions other than the team functions. It will not link to any stats, only to the team it is a member of and it will show as founder, so your team can participate in challenges.

Gathering/updating user information including founder status is done once a week during the night from Saturday to Sunday! Once a week because it's stressing the project servers.

____________

Profile Lennart SM5YMTProject donor
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Posts: 1125
ID: 7989
Credit: 694,692,344
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Discovered the World's First base 13 Generalized Woodall prime!!!Eliminated 22 conjecture "k"s2009 Tour de Primes highest prime count2009 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2010 Tour de Primes highest prime count2010 Tour de Primes highest prime score321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,097,586)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,101,661)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,169,933)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,921,475)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (55,453)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,407,637)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,595,742)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (360,998)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,800,792)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,885,194)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,345,944)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,566,122)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (220,787,724)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,694,194)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,371)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,780,026)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,585,003)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (287,482,568)
Message 25539 - Posted: 11 Aug 2010 | 22:10:39 UTC - in response to Message 25523.

Hi PST,

Check out this thread:

http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=2648

Anybody interested in participating in this challenge? If so, I think Lennart is the only one who can sign us up:

From BOINCstats:

How does a team join a team challenge?

The founder of a team can enter a team into a challenge.

The team founder (here on BOINCstats) is the person who is founder of the team in most projects. To check who is the team founder, find your team on the profile pages and go to the profile. The founder is listed on the team profile page.

The team founder has a extra section in his BAM! menu (Team founder) and in that section he will find the Challenges. Once there everything is self explanatory.

The team founder is assigned by an automated process, he can't be set manually! If your team has a separate admin account then create a BAM! account for this admin as you would for a normal user (so same email and password). Include all projects but do not attach hosts to it or use any of the managing functions other than the team functions. It will not link to any stats, only to the team it is a member of and it will show as founder, so your team can participate in challenges.

Gathering/updating user information including founder status is done once a week during the night from Saturday to Sunday! Once a week because it's stressing the project servers.


I have sign in. :)

Lennart

Profile AlanProject donor
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Joined: 8 Oct 08
Posts: 88
ID: 30274
Credit: 19,927,031
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,643)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,729)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,236,977)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,046)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (313,785)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,897,893)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,348)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,415,281)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,391)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,670)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,473,848)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,409,400)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,489)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,658)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,612,729)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,286)
Message 25542 - Posted: 12 Aug 2010 | 2:51:26 UTC - in response to Message 25540.

Cool:) Unlike the primegrid challenges, I'm guessing this challenge is just a raw credit contest without focus on a particular subproject? I couldn't find much information about it other than the start date.

I guess I need to think about what project is most efficient at generating credit. Certainly one of the sieves, but which one?




____________

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Joined: 28 Jun 09
Posts: 391
ID: 42625
Credit: 45,226,534
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,556)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,170)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (293,229)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,786)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,916)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,249)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,042)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (120,654)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,702)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,873)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,002,190)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,201,696)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,068)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,415)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (660,671)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,071)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,233,138)
Message 25544 - Posted: 12 Aug 2010 | 7:16:20 UTC - in response to Message 25542.
Last modified: 12 Aug 2010 | 7:32:51 UTC

I guess I need to think about what project is most efficient at generating credit. Certainly one of the sieves, but which one?

321 sieves or PPS sieves for CPUs*. PPS sieves for CUDA GPUs.

*The (credit output) difference is not that large and it varies on different CPU types so I give no further recommendation here.
____________

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Joined: 28 Jun 09
Posts: 391
ID: 42625
Credit: 45,226,534
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,556)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,170)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (293,229)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,786)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,916)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,249)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,042)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (120,654)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,702)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,873)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,002,190)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,201,696)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,068)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,415)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (660,671)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,071)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,233,138)
Message 25545 - Posted: 12 Aug 2010 | 7:28:59 UTC
Last modified: 12 Aug 2010 | 7:38:25 UTC

One additional problem:

Granting PSA credits during the time of the challenge could heavily distort the results in favor of teams doing Project Staging Area work.
____________

Profile Lennart SM5YMTProject donor
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Joined: 7 May 07
Posts: 1125
ID: 7989
Credit: 694,692,344
RAC: 0
Discovered the World's First base 13 Generalized Woodall prime!!!Eliminated 22 conjecture "k"s2009 Tour de Primes highest prime count2009 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2010 Tour de Primes highest prime count2010 Tour de Primes highest prime score321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,097,586)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,101,661)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,169,933)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,921,475)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (55,453)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,407,637)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,595,742)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (360,998)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,800,792)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,885,194)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,345,944)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,566,122)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (220,787,724)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,694,194)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,371)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,780,026)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,585,003)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (287,482,568)
Message 25565 - Posted: 13 Aug 2010 | 12:39:10 UTC

Name Prime Grid Extra
Project PrimeGrid
Issued by Turan@BOINC
Start time 2010-08-30 20:00 GMT
End time 2010-09-03 20:00 GMT
Late entrants allowed? Yes
Number of teams participating 9
Number of users participating 0


Participants:
Position Team Name Credits
AMD Users
Boinc-Asturias
L'Alliance Francophone
PrimeSearchTeam
Pxine Workshop
Stephenson Clan
The Scottish Boinc Team
Turan@BOINC
X Grubbers Kick Ass

Lennart

JohnProject donor
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Joined: 21 Feb 06
Posts: 2875
ID: 2449
Credit: 2,681,934
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 25697 - Posted: 20 Aug 2010 | 5:11:18 UTC - in response to Message 25544.

I guess I need to think about what project is most efficient at generating credit. Certainly one of the sieves, but which one?

321 sieves or PPS sieves for CPUs*. PPS sieves for CUDA GPUs.

*The (credit output) difference is not that large and it varies on different CPU types so I give no further recommendation here.

I agree, the sieves are the way to go. In advance of the team challenge, I recommend selecting all the sieves and seeing which one produces the best for your machine. I suspect people might find the following:

CPU 32 bit: PPS sieve
CPU 64 bit: PPS sieve (but should test other sieves)
GPU CUDA: PPS sieve

Granting PSA credits during the time of the challenge could heavily distort the results in favor of teams doing Project Staging Area work.

This is true although there will be no spikes. PSA credit is usually granted within a couple of weeks of the work being accomplished and is handed out daily at 70% RAC until all has been distributed. However, there's still time to do some PSA work now and it might be granted during the challenge. Definitely during the challenge, everyone should be doing only BOINC work.

Of course, if they are able to remove PSA credit from the challenge credit, that variable would no longer be an issue. :)
____________

Profile AlanProject donor
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Joined: 8 Oct 08
Posts: 88
ID: 30274
Credit: 19,927,031
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,643)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,729)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,236,977)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,046)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (313,785)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,897,893)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,348)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,415,281)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,391)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,670)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,473,848)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,409,400)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,489)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,658)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,612,729)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,286)
Message 26020 - Posted: 30 Aug 2010 | 14:46:37 UTC - in response to Message 25697.

5 hours to go:)
____________

Profile JHAPAProject donor
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Joined: 11 Sep 09
Posts: 121
ID: 46756
Credit: 122,542,909
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (118,919)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (147,908)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,225)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (234,507)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (402,788)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,004)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,034)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,746)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (303,365)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,967)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,427,885)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (118,435,229)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,505)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,735)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,502)PSA Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,000)
Message 26050 - Posted: 1 Sep 2010 | 8:54:59 UTC

Hi all crunchers...
actual standings for this challenge are there:

http://boincstats.com/stats/challenges_stats.php?pr=pg&chid=63&type=credit

JHAPA
____________

Profile AlanProject donor
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Joined: 8 Oct 08
Posts: 88
ID: 30274
Credit: 19,927,031
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,643)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,729)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,236,977)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,046)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (313,785)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,897,893)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,348)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,415,281)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,391)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,670)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,473,848)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,409,400)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,489)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,658)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,612,729)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,286)
Message 26052 - Posted: 1 Sep 2010 | 14:21:41 UTC - in response to Message 26050.

How exactly did our team accrue over 2 million credits in less than two days?? Not complaining, but that doesn't seem possible considering the stat on the primegrid homepage for our team over the last 24 hours has been steady at around 340k since the challenge began...

Cheers!
Alan
____________

JohnProject donor
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Joined: 21 Feb 06
Posts: 2875
ID: 2449
Credit: 2,681,934
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 26055 - Posted: 1 Sep 2010 | 17:31:32 UTC - in response to Message 26052.

How exactly did our team accrue over 2 million credits in less than two days?? Not complaining, but that doesn't seem possible considering the stat on the primegrid homepage for our team over the last 24 hours has been steady at around 340k since the challenge began...

PSA credit. :) It's not included in the "official" RAC.

____________

Profile AlanProject donor
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Joined: 8 Oct 08
Posts: 88
ID: 30274
Credit: 19,927,031
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,643)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,729)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,236,977)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,046)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (313,785)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,897,893)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,348)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,415,281)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,391)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,670)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,473,848)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,409,400)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,489)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (318,658)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,612,729)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,286)
Message 26057 - Posted: 1 Sep 2010 | 18:30:29 UTC - in response to Message 26055.

PSA credit. :) It's not included in the "official" RAC.


Ah, so that spike in credit was from work done prior to the challenge. How cheeky of us!

On another note, I may have to shut down my computers soon. If not due to the record setting temperatures we're having in Halifax (34C today, feeling like 42C, yuck!), then because of hurricane Earl which seems to have its sights set on Nova Scotia...

Cheers!
Alan




____________

Profile JHAPAProject donor
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Joined: 11 Sep 09
Posts: 121
ID: 46756
Credit: 122,542,909
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (118,919)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (147,908)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,225)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (234,507)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (402,788)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,004)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,034)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,746)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (303,365)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,967)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,427,885)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (118,435,229)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,505)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (78,735)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,502)PSA Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,000)
Message 26112 - Posted: 4 Sep 2010 | 18:07:41 UTC

Hi all, it seems we are champions...but if i see results, that is a little strange... :-)))
____________

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