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Message boards : Number crunching : Year of the ox - Why would a success draw 0 points?

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Profile Clank [MM]
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Joined: 19 Feb 07
Posts: 9
ID: 5913
Credit: 638,491,902
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,613)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (171,488)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,666)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (633,063,032)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (263,529)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,776,384)
Message 13146 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 4:42:11 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 5:00:54 UTC

Just wondering if anyone new why a success would draw "0" points. I have had 4 so far. It just seems a little strange, the machines run fine. Computer id: 87410, 83871, 93439


86992896 95297 29 Jan 2009 15:07:04 UTC 30 Jan 2009 0:17:31 UTC Over Success Done 28,016.41 251.50 255.28

82982611 87410 26 Jan 2009 17:59:31 UTC 28 Jan 2009 19:32:16 UTC Over Success Done 55,783.69 193.83 0.00

82982612 74978 26 Jan 2009 18:01:19 UTC 27 Jan 2009 0:33:14 UTC Over Success Done 23,450.28 158.93 255.28
86933219 26129 28 Jan 2009 19:41:47 UTC 29 Jan 2009 14:51:49 UTC Over Client error Aborted by user 0.00 0.00 ---




82982608 87410 26 Jan 2009 17:59:31 UTC 28 Jan 2009 2:50:31 UTC Over Success Done 52,110.38 181.07 0.00

82982609 83699 26 Jan 2009 18:01:16 UTC 27 Jan 2009 9:58:58 UTC Over Success Done 17,819.22 142.16 187.41
86876573 64542 28 Jan 2009 3:05:00 UTC 28 Jan 2009 19:14:12 UTC Over Success Done 28,893.93 159.14 187.41



AuthenticAMD
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ [x86 Family 15 Model 35 Stepping 2]
Number of CPUs 2
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
Professional x86 Editon, Service Pack 3, (05.01.2600.00)
Memory 2046.42 MB
Cache 488.28 KB
Swap space 5985.37 MB
Total disk space 465.75 GB
Free Disk Space 224 GB
Measured floating point speed 2231.56 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 4101.2 million ops/sec
Average upload rate 25.45 KB/sec
Average download rate 145.69 KB/sec
Average turnaround time 12 days
Maximum daily WU quota per CPU 2000/day
Tasks 21
Number of times client has contacted server 13122
Last time contacted server 30 Jan 2009 2:21:01 UTC
% of time BOINC client is running 99.8003 %
While BOINC running, % of time host has an Internet connection 100 %
While BOINC running, % of time work is allowed 99.9913 %
Average CPU efficiency 0.921451
Task duration correction factor 3.37391


82983476 87831 26 Jan 2009 18:00:13 UTC 27 Jan 2009 12:27:06 UTC Over Success Done 20,803.11 124.12 0.00

82983475 86675 26 Jan 2009 18:00:13 UTC 27 Jan 2009 16:31:57 UTC Over Success Done 57,417.44 257.22 306.02
86831965 84877 27 Jan 2009 17:34:42 UTC 30 Jan 2009 4:26:45 UTC Over Success Done 49,692.58 234.79 306.02


GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz [x86 Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 7]
Number of CPUs 4
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
Professional x86 Editon, Service Pack 2, (05.01.2600.00)
Memory 2046.42 MB
Cache 244.14 KB
Swap space 3939.44 MB
Total disk space 149.04 GB
Free Disk Space 144.26 GB
Measured floating point speed 3265.36 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 6631.99 million ops/sec
Average upload rate 10.55 KB/sec
Average download rate 68.92 KB/sec
Average turnaround time 12 days
Maximum daily WU quota per CPU 2000/day
Tasks 96
Number of times client has contacted server 30
Last time contacted server 30 Jan 2009 3:47:01 UTC
% of time BOINC client is running 94.7102 %
While BOINC running, % of time host has an Internet connection 99.306 %
While BOINC running, % of time work is allowed 99.9892 %
Average CPU efficiency 0.987212
Task duration correction factor 0.897869


86872353 93413 28 Jan 2009 1:23:26 UTC 28 Jan 2009 1:25:03 UTC Over Client error Compute error 0.00 0.00 ---
86842032 89168 27 Jan 2009 18:41:49 UTC 28 Jan 2009 1:11:44 UTC Over Success Done 21,142.78 190.29 0.00
86872499 52211 28 Jan 2009 1:25:41 UTC 28 Jan 2009 13:29:34 UTC Over Success Done 24,733.06 146.76 167.55

82982656 93439 26 Jan 2009 18:00:13 UTC 27 Jan 2009 17:02:14 UTC Over Success Done 19,653.94 113.60 0.00

82982657 70824 26 Jan 2009 17:16:26 UTC 27 Jan 2009 18:31:47 UTC Over Success Done 29,256.16 122.62 167.55


Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz [x86 Family 6 Model 7 Stepping 10]
Number of CPUs 4
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
Professional x86 Editon, Service Pack 1, (05.01.2600.00)
Memory 2046.42 MB
Cache 244.14 KB
Swap space 3943.44 MB
Total disk space 139.72 GB
Free Disk Space 134.37 GB
Measured floating point speed 3265.46 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 6643.87 million ops/sec
Average upload rate 9.5 KB/sec
Average download rate 71.95 KB/sec
Average turnaround time 0 days
Maximum daily WU quota per CPU 2000/day
Tasks 86
Number of times client has contacted server 50
Last time contacted server 30 Jan 2009 3:46:15 UTC
% of time BOINC client is running 98.3405 %
While BOINC running, % of time host has an Internet connection 100 %
While BOINC running, % of time work is allowed 99.9846 %
Task duration correction factor 0.83508

Profile Nekto
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Joined: 18 May 08
Posts: 16
ID: 22936
Credit: 138,398
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,668)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,059)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,279)
Message 13150 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 8:50:02 UTC - in response to Message 13146.

because you had bad result. To get points, there should be 2 same results.

Profile WilliamWallace
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ID: 12058
Credit: 2,100,548
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (277,174)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (135,748)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,673,802)
Message 13151 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 9:20:23 UTC - in response to Message 13150.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 9:29:29 UTC

because you had bad result. To get points, there should be 2 same results.



What would be the cause? I have had several on two different boxes. If there is a problem, how does one determine what the issue is?
____________
WILL CRUNCH for HAGGIS

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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 13154 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 10:33:06 UTC - in response to Message 13151.

because you had bad result. To get points, there should be 2 same results.



What would be the cause? I have had several on two different boxes. If there is a problem, how does one determine what the issue is?


This is basically right though a bit blunt--- My understanding is this--- When 2 WU's are returned (uploaded) and they agree totally they are passed on via report & then validation--- IF the 2 results do not agree exactly a 3rd WU is sent out and if it matches (agrees) with one of the earlier WU then the matching WU's are passed on to validation--- The odd WU will show as being a sucess to the cruncher but its result is faulty (not matching the Quorem of 2)--- if the 3rd WU does not match either of the earlier the WU's it will be sent out again until a match is found or the WU is declared faulty--
____________
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"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein

Profile WilliamWallace
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Joined: 9 Sep 07
Posts: 25
ID: 12058
Credit: 2,100,548
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (277,174)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (135,748)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,673,802)
Message 13155 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 11:26:17 UTC - in response to Message 13154.

because you had bad result. To get points, there should be 2 same results.



What would be the cause? I have had several on two different boxes. If there is a problem, how does one determine what the issue is?


This is basically right though a bit blunt--- My understanding is this--- When 2 WU's are returned (uploaded) and they agree totally they are passed on via report & then validation--- IF the 2 results do not agree exactly a 3rd WU is sent out and if it matches (agrees) with one of the earlier WU then the matching WU's are passed on to validation--- The odd WU will show as being a sucess to the cruncher but its result is faulty (not matching the Quorem of 2)--- if the 3rd WU does not match either of the earlier the WU's it will be sent out again until a match is found or the WU is declared faulty--


I had after looking at multiple units come to that conclusion....My issue is how to troubleshoot the problem....is hardware, improper download, software, the alignment of the stars or bad karma???

I would just like some means of correcting the issue. All of my boxes run any other project 24/7 without issues and pass all stress/memtests...there is little that I can do without some means of gathering clues.

It is a hardship on the project and other participants when any WU is in error.

It seems as though, just shutting down an offending box is the only option.
____________
WILL CRUNCH for HAGGIS

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Posts: 652
ID: 845
Credit: 1,755,095,958
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Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,570,600)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,098,443)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,913,947)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,375,390)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,842,162)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,435,120)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,074,463)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,201,780)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,242,436)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (76,372)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,366,704)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,281,303)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (209,833)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,000,264)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,347)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (342,928,524)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,177,104)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,556,644)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (93,219,331)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (336,342,188)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (839,069,471)
Message 13156 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 12:01:29 UTC

Hmm... my quad was running without a problem during the first two days, but yesterday it started to produce invalid results. It had two bad WUs with that -529697949 error before (resulting in another 10 hours of lost CPU time, because the LLR app still ran).

I rebooted the machine yesterday and had no more errors since then... but no idea about the reason for those errors. :(
____________

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Posts: 779
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Credit: 74,302,485
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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 13157 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 12:04:42 UTC - in response to Message 13155.



I had after looking at multiple units come to that conclusion....My issue is how to troubleshoot the problem....is hardware, improper download, software, the alignment of the stars or bad karma???

I would just like some means of correcting the issue. All of my boxes run any other project 24/7 without issues and pass all stress/memtests...there is little that I can do without some means of gathering clues.

It is a hardship on the project and other participants when any WU is in error.

It seems as though, just shutting down an offending box is the only option.


William--- Most often the cause of these issues are overclocking- & overheating-- My boxes (9of with 13 cores) sit in a harsh environment where air the air temp reaches 42deg C--- I don't overclock-- I'm happy if I can just keep the cpu's temp within normal limits---- I have all hosts crunching PPS 24/7 and now over 60000 PPS WU--- I have seen this result only twice when one of my P4's was going into meltdown----

If you don't seriously overclock and your temps are good then it is just "bad karma" or the stars are out of alighnment---You are a serious cruncher and I suppose with your large number of WU's there is an error margin to be considered---

I doubt you are causing any problem to others or the project when this ocassionally (relatively) happens
____________
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"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein

Profile WilliamWallace
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Joined: 9 Sep 07
Posts: 25
ID: 12058
Credit: 2,100,548
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (277,174)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (135,748)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,673,802)
Message 13159 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 12:34:27 UTC - in response to Message 13157.

I can find no issues with one of my boxes and have moved it to another project.

I was still putting out many "pending" wu's that had a third unit sent out.

I did , yesterday and day before, shut down two others that refused to run the 321. One would vacillate between cores in a random pattern, the other locked solid and would not work the units. Stock boxes that run all other projects without issue.

Must be bad "crunchers" karma:)
____________
WILL CRUNCH for HAGGIS

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Joined: 11 Oct 08
Posts: 779
ID: 30382
Credit: 74,302,485
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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 13160 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 12:39:07 UTC - in response to Message 13159.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 12:52:32 UTC

I can find no issues with one of my boxes and have moved it to another project.

I was still putting out many "pending" wu's that had a third unit sent out.

I did , yesterday and day before, shut down two others that refused to run the 321. One would vacillate between cores in a random pattern, the other locked solid and would not work the units. Stock boxes that run all other projects without issue.

Must be bad "crunchers" karma:)


William-- you must do as you think best but It might be you are simply a victim of stastics or as we engineers say (shrug sholders) "shit happens"-- take heart from a Cullen WU I looked at recently--- A cruncher sucessfully comleted the WU 26/9/08--- 22 wingmen later (16/1/09) they are still waiting for a result-- I have been an engineer for a lot of years now and I accept that for some reason (no reason) some things are just JINXED and going to cause problems-- we just blame Murphy (Law) and carry on--
____________
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"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein

SiKTheGreatOne
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Joined: 20 Mar 08
Posts: 110
ID: 20411
Credit: 101,493,682
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (60,082)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,423)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (519,856)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (526,520)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,206)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,422)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (518,356)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (102,655)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,486)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,696)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,039,198)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,020,771)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,228,565)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (84,579,993)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,654)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,211,586)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,596)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,628)PSA Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,184,000)
Message 13161 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 13:26:59 UTC - in response to Message 13160.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 13:31:55 UTC

I think if engineers didn't solve the problems they encountered, we would be in trouble. (I say this as an aspiring engineer.)
____________

Kai Strang
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Posts: 18
ID: 25903
Credit: 214,545,166
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,115)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (472,016)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (206,893)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,745)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (290,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (194,243)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (211,609,629)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,270)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (207,760)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (389,408)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,878)
Message 13165 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 14:16:27 UTC

Doesn´t look like "bad karma" to me, for several hours now some credit sums are actually DROPPING in the graphs, which didn´t happen the three days before.

Examples here and here.

Looks to me like the later WUs tend to error out even on stable (=non-OCed stock) boxes a lot more frequently at this time (happened to one of mine too).
As for the reason, I couldn´t guess, maybe someone is able to enlighten me/us ;-)

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,485,969)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 13166 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 14:22:10 UTC - in response to Message 13160.

William-- you must do as you think best but It might be you are simply a victim of stastics or as we engineers say (shrug sholders) "shit happens"-- take heart from a Cullen WU I looked at recently--- A cruncher sucessfully comleted the WU 26/9/08--- 22 wingmen later (16/1/09) they are still waiting for a result-- I have been an engineer for a lot of years now and I accept that for some reason (no reason) some things are just JINXED and going to cause problems-- we just blame Murphy (Law) and carry on--

Those WUs were massively trashed by Norton Antivirus, which decided that our screensaver was a probable virus... So it's a different issue.

William, you can try running other PG applications if LLR are producing errors. The sieves for example are much less hardware-issue prone.
____________

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,485,969)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 13167 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 14:23:38 UTC - in response to Message 13165.

Doesn´t look like "bad karma" to me, for several hours now some credit sums are actually DROPPING in the graphs, which didn´t happen the three days before.

It is because quorum is being met and validation proves a WU is faulty. Challenge score is given as soon as a WU is returned, but it is removed if it is deemed invalid.
____________

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 13171 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 15:25:30 UTC - in response to Message 13155.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 15:26:44 UTC

I had after looking at multiple units come to that conclusion....My issue is how to troubleshoot the problem....is hardware, improper download, software, the alignment of the stars or bad karma???

I would just like some means of correcting the issue. All of my boxes run any other project 24/7 without issues and pass all stress/memtests...there is little that I can do without some means of gathering clues.

It is a hardship on the project and other participants when any WU is in error.

It seems as though, just shutting down an offending box is the only option.

In the majority of cases in which LLR produces a bad residue, the cause is either faulty RAM or heat issues. I know of no other project in which their application "stresses" the CPU and RAM as much as LLR (GIMPS uses the same LLR test; thus encountering the same issues).

These longer WU's "push" the CPU and RAM longer and harder allowing for more heat to build up, thus increasing the odds for a "flaw" to be found in the hardware.

If a machine does fine with short PPS LLR WU's but not these long 321 LLR WU's then I'd suspect heat or RAM.

Unfortunately, LLR does not produce any "error documentation" as it thinks it processed the WU correctly. Only until an unmatched residue is returned do we know that one of them is invalid...thus a third WU is sent out.

Most boxes that fail with long LLR WU's do perfectly well with shorter LLR WU's (such as TPS & PPS), sieving, and pretty much any other BOINC project.

Since the hosts in question pass all stress/memtests, I'm not able to speculate on what else could be the problem. I'd be curious to know if you used prime95 for the stress/memtest and for how long did the test run. I've seen hosts go months without producing a single error then all of a sudden produce all bad residues. Most of the time it's because dust collected over those months and reduced the cooling. Heat built up and started affecting RAM. It's a vicious cycle.

I know this isn't much help. Any time a host is producing bad LLR residues, it should be switched to sieving or to another project. The last thing we want to see is an erroneous WU...not only from a project standpoint but from a participant standpoint as well.

Below is a copy from another post on how to stress test with prime95.

------------------------------------
Many people conduct a "Stress Test" on their systems to rule out any hardware issues that may be causing problems. Prime95 has an option to do such that.

For more information on the test, please see the Wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime95

You can download p95v* (Windows 32), p64v* (Windows 64) or mprime* (Linux) here: http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

The "Blend" option will stress both CPU and RAM. You decide how long you wish it to run...as it will run indefinitely if no errors are found. The Wikipedia entry mentions a good "rule of thumb" to follow.

This post is provided for informational purposes only. Please read all materials before running. If there are hardware issues, this test has a very high probability of finding them. Therefore, run at your own risk. :)"
____________

Kai Strang
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Joined: 20 Jul 08
Posts: 18
ID: 25903
Credit: 214,545,166
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,115)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (472,016)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (206,893)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,745)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (290,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (194,243)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (211,609,629)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,270)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (207,760)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (389,408)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,878)
Message 13172 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 15:26:43 UTC - in response to Message 13167.

Doesn´t look like "bad karma" to me, for several hours now some credit sums are actually DROPPING in the graphs, which didn´t happen the three days before.

It is because quorum is being met and validation proves a WU is faulty. Challenge score is given as soon as a WU is returned, but it is removed if it is deemed invalid.

Ok, I can accept that WUs are being determined faulty and challenge points are withdrawn when the quorum mechanics do their thing, but that doesn´t really explain why this starts to happen this late in the game. IMHO that effect should have been visible much earlier.

BTW, how does such a "faulty" WU look in the tasks list?
I checked my tasks but only found "errored out" ones, pendings and those granted credit, but none that were reported like "Success, claimed xxx, granted 0".
Please explain when convenient. Tanks ;-)

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 13173 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 15:46:17 UTC - in response to Message 13172.

Doesn´t look like "bad karma" to me, for several hours now some credit sums are actually DROPPING in the graphs, which didn´t happen the three days before.

It is because quorum is being met and validation proves a WU is faulty. Challenge score is given as soon as a WU is returned, but it is removed if it is deemed invalid.

Ok, I can accept that WUs are being determined faulty and challenge points are withdrawn when the quorum mechanics do their thing, but that doesn´t really explain why this starts to happen this late in the game. IMHO that effect should have been visible much earlier.

BTW, how does such a "faulty" WU look in the tasks list?
I checked my tasks but only found "errored out" ones, pendings and those granted credit, but none that were reported like "Success, claimed xxx, granted 0".
Please explain when convenient. Tanks ;-)

A WU with a bad residue is not known to be faulty until an unmatched residue comes in. Afterwards, a third test is sent out. When that WU comes in, whichever residue is unmatched, that WU becomes faulty.

Then you'll see the task: "Success, claimed xxx, granted 0"

The only other way to notice a potential residue problem is to view the pendings. If any of them are part of a triad of results (2 success pending, 1 in progress) then that WU has the potential of being the unmatched residue. Of course, your test could be the "in progress" one and/or one of the other hosts could have the bad residue.

Looking at your hosts, I see no such behavior.

____________

Kai Strang
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Joined: 20 Jul 08
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Credit: 214,545,166
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,115)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (472,016)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (206,893)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,745)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (290,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (194,243)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (211,609,629)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,270)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (207,760)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (389,408)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,878)
Message 13175 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 15:52:46 UTC - in response to Message 13173.

Doesn´t look like "bad karma" to me, for [...]

[...]
Looking at your hosts, I see no such behavior.

That´s exactly why I ask ;-)

I definitely have had challenge points withdrawn at about noon today (not too small an amount either, and I´m not the only one) and do not find any WUs in my tasks list that would explain that.

Still at a loss ...

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Credit: 2,100,548
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (277,174)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (135,748)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,673,802)
Message 13176 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 15:56:45 UTC - in response to Message 13172.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2009 | 16:00:31 UTC

Doesn´t look like "bad karma" to me, for several hours now some credit sums are actually DROPPING in the graphs, which didn´t happen the three days before.

It is because quorum is being met and validation proves a WU is faulty. Challenge score is given as soon as a WU is returned, but it is removed if it is deemed invalid.

Ok, I can accept that WUs are being determined faulty and challenge points are withdrawn when the quorum mechanics do their thing, but that doesn´t really explain why this starts to happen this late in the game. IMHO that effect should have been visible much earlier.

BTW, how does such a "faulty" WU look in the tasks list?
I checked my tasks but only found "errored out" ones, pendings and those granted credit, but none that were reported like "Success, claimed xxx, granted 0".
Please explain when convenient. Tanks ;-)



see here;
http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=91221&offset=20

@John, Thanks for the insight. I don't normally use prime 95 as I have found in the past OCCT to be more accurate[my experience only, YMMV]. Memtest has been run on some boxes for as long as a day but of course only verifies ram.

In the particular case of the four boxes that I have mentioned, it probably is some combination of events that lead to the issues. I don't believe heat to be germain as it is about 0c in the room with the problem children.

I have plenty of other boxes that appear to be doing well and that is enough:)
____________
WILL CRUNCH for HAGGIS

Kai Strang
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Credit: 214,545,166
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,115)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (472,016)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (206,893)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,745)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (290,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (194,243)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (211,609,629)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,270)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (207,760)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (389,408)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,878)
Message 13177 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 16:19:06 UTC

Thanks William, now I know how these WUs look,
but John, I still don´t know where my points went when I have none of those ...
;-)

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 13183 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 17:47:17 UTC - in response to Message 13177.

Thanks William, now I know how these WUs look,
but John, I still don´t know where my points went when I have none of those ...
;-)

See this post.
____________

Kai Strang
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Joined: 20 Jul 08
Posts: 18
ID: 25903
Credit: 214,545,166
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,115)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (472,016)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (206,893)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,745)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (290,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (194,243)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (211,609,629)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,270)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (207,760)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (389,408)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,878)
Message 13185 - Posted: 30 Jan 2009 | 18:09:55 UTC - in response to Message 13183.

Thanks William, now I know how these WUs look,
but John, I still don´t know where my points went when I have none of those ...
;-)

See this post.

Aaahhh, this looks more like the real thing!

Thanxalot ;-)

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Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (428,241)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,527)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,285,770)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,590)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,434)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,858)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,770)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,547)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,268,579)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,056,064)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (77,216)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,429)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (960,939)
Message 13200 - Posted: 31 Jan 2009 | 0:42:10 UTC - in response to Message 13161.

I think if engineers didn't solve the problems they encountered, we would be in trouble. (I say this as an aspiring engineer.)


Sik my friend
You are quite correct and I did not mean to ignore the problem-- I will explain further-- As to the Karma (Murphy) I am refering to the statistical reality that in any given range of manufactured products be they lightbulbs, CPU's, machine parts, RAM or even PG WU's there will be a certain number that are faulty (%)-- possibly a very small % -- as engineers it is our duty to keep this number as small as possible

William states the box is good but I suspect he is the victim of the above in some manner--

Given the time frame of the challange and lack of data it would not seem likely that an immediate solution would be found

As an aspiring Engineer I bid you welcome to the general fraternity--

DoES
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"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein

Message boards : Number crunching : Year of the ox - Why would a success draw 0 points?

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